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HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

lkuseian
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HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by lkuseian » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:11 am

For all 2010s and up,

First a bit of common sense-
Do not listen to the ridiculous maintenance schedule recommend in owners manual! if you listen to it your car will inevitably fail much sooner than it should. These service intervals are listed with the bare minimum and fewest amount of service periods physically possible to cut down on things that are being counted up by the car market where the vehicle will be stretched thin in advertisement by things like the "5 year maintenance cost" that is used to advertise which cars can save you the most money to maintain. All so that new owners are tempted to buy newer, trade sooner and buy often with out much care to properly extending vehicle life.

To prevent premature water pump failure (or any type of part failure) in these cars its not 100% but it will extend the life of the pump dramatically!!

The transmission fluid & coolant are both negligently scheduled to be flushed or changed toward the later life of the vehicle which = doom for cars and engines.

The actual Ford owner website recommends a more accurate inspection period of the vehicle parts (basically every time you change the oil). The reason these are listed more as inspection and not actual replacements or servicing is because not a single car or engine that comes out of the factory are the same right down to the metal forging the blocks in the engines, that is physically impossible not too mention being exposed to different environments, driving styles and service/part quality available. Which means! - some will burn fluids, corrode or wear out parts much sooner or far later than others. remember, the life of a part or fluid is an ideal average.

These 3.5l engines have always been bizarre when it comes to different amounts and rate of electrolysis that occurs in the coolant and if you just assume that opening the coolant reservoir at the top and seeing clean green fluid, that your good. Then your car is most likely a sitting time bomb of repairs.

I've recommend to every DIY customer I've ever had that before doing an oil change, run the car to temperature, with the heat on!(especially in summer to circulate the heater core fluid) then when draining the oil, open the stopcock at the bottom of the radiator (yes I know it's a pain because it's behind the skid panel in the front) and fill up a small clear cup and look at the coolant if it looks dull or hazy or smells worn then for what ever reason!.
Just flush the fluid!!
and pleasepleaseplease use oem or equivalent fluid!!!
Don't mix colors or grades (if its orange don't use green etc)
and just stick to 50/50 coolant because allot of people do not evenly dilute the fluids nor do they use distilled water when diluting fluid.

To the first person THAT WILL claim tap water is fine, please remember these newer engines are being made with higher amounts mixed metals, tighter and more precise seals and clearances. The sediment and mineral content and chlorination in tap water should not be mixed with engines or they will prematurely rust and corrode! LOOK at your rotors, DO YOU SEE THE RUST! YEAH, THAT HAPPENS INSIDE THE COOLING LOOP TOO! HOW DO YOU THINK THE PUMP BLADES CORRODE AND BREAK DOWN THE SEAL's CAUSING THE PUMP TO FAIL.

Bottom line! your coolant should be thoroughly flushed and replaced far more often than listed in your owners manual.

p.s. protip- don't use sealants and stop leaks because although possibly offering temporary fixes, they will break down the seals of the engine and will clog up sensors and components preventing proper monitoring and operation of the vehicle.
Lkuseian
Current: 2011 Ford Taurus SEL
past:
2006 Nissan Altima SL
2004 Ford Taurus SES
2000 Dodge Durango SLT


Dougboffl
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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Dougboffl » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:03 pm

I've got a 2016 Limited 3.5L Flex-Fuel Taurus with 10k miles on it.
So, the post above all makes good sense, frequent fluid changes with the correct stuff, don't laugh off a small coolant drips.

I've also read about numerous complaints on this and other Ford forums on the water pump issue. I've probably seen about 20 reports where someone says, "It happened to me". In some they give age ranges for the issue like 2010-2014, 2010-newer. Many of the posts are older, like <2014. It is now August 2017 and the 2018 models are on the horizon. Will there even be a 2018 Taurus?

Does anyone know if Ford has addressed the issue (somehow) with recent 3.5L vehicles? Of course I'm specifically concerned with my 2016 model year but just wondering if Ford even thinks there is a significant issue. Is there a year where they fixed them going forward, or is there a better part or seal or procedure to remedy the issue at less cost?

Some of these thread's results seem a bit much like the dealership/repair shop maybe took advantage of someone. Like when - the engine drove fine but because of the coolant circulating in the oil the engine needs replacing? I'm old school but WHAT? I've not messed with engines in years so is there something that mixing those fluids (oil & coolant) produces Alien's acid blood? Or the dealership took 24 hours to do a 12-hour repair and a DIYer does it in 4 hours? Prices from $1,200 to $2,000 just for the pump, no engine.

Also, are we hearing about such a small percentage of units sold that this is really no big deal except to those that have been bitten? Ford sold about 200k Taurus cars model years 2014-2017 so are we all reading and rehashing 100 internet reports out of a total of 500 actual (0.25%) water pump failures?

I've got a while & miles before I get real concerned for myself but I'm looking for some recent intel on the issue. Should I be looking into an extended warranty?

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Webmaster » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:27 pm

Dougboffl wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:03 pm
Does anyone know if Ford has addressed the issue (somehow) with recent 3.5L vehicles? Of course I'm specifically concerned with my 2016 model year but just wondering if Ford even thinks there is a significant issue.
Your engine still has a similar design, could be susceptible over time. An extended warranty won't necessarily cover the full damage this issue can cause. Buy a Toyota :wink: OK I'm half serious.
2000 Ford Taurus SEL (excellent car, sold to a friend)
1992 Mercury Sable GS (good car except for the tranny, sold)
Current: 03 F150 King Ranch SuperCrew
Other Fords owned: 02 F150 SuperCrew 4x4, 11 F150 EcoBoost, 07 Ranger, 01 F150 XLT, 98 F150 XLT, 96 Thunderbird LX, 95 Escort GT, 86 Mustang LX, 82 Mustang

Dougboffl
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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Dougboffl » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:59 am

So I went to the Ford extended warranty site (no longer Ford-ESP now http://fordprotect.ford.com/)
I looks like the "PowertrainCARE" program would be lowest cost (cough) that covers the cursed water pump. For my 2016, w/11k miles on it, coverage out to year 2024/125k miles (furthest they go) and estimating only 12k miles per year the price is...

(are you sitting down?)

(ready)

Down payment of $287
And $107 per month.

(I told you to sit down)

So ~$1300/per year (or $9300 start to finish for the 7 years of coverage). At first I was shocked, then (although still shocked) I thought, "Well this is more than an offset for a single water pump repair". It covers most any engine issue with a few exclusions of course. And if you were to have a water pump eat your engine, well now it might almost make sense vs an $8k engine job. Now if you took that same monthly payment and stuck it in a nominal investment you would have, "Mo money" to spend on the repair - if it was needed or you would have a nice down payment on a new car. But I don't think anybody really ever does that, it just sounds good.

Just something to pass along.

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Webmaster » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:47 pm

Wow $$... but.... keep in mind that if you don't have a receipt for a coolant change/flush at the proper interval, they can potential invalidate the extended warranty. And that $9,300 warranty only takes effect AFTER the factory warranty expires, so it's not a 7 year warranty in reality, it's more like a 2 year warranty. Semantics...

That is such a good deal... for Ford ;)
2000 Ford Taurus SEL (excellent car, sold to a friend)
1992 Mercury Sable GS (good car except for the tranny, sold)
Current: 03 F150 King Ranch SuperCrew
Other Fords owned: 02 F150 SuperCrew 4x4, 11 F150 EcoBoost, 07 Ranger, 01 F150 XLT, 98 F150 XLT, 96 Thunderbird LX, 95 Escort GT, 86 Mustang LX, 82 Mustang

GhostRider
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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by GhostRider » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:47 pm

My '13 has 111K on it and so far so good. The dealer flushed my coolant not too long ago :). The water pump seems cheap enough

AT4Z-8501-B
Water Pump Assembly (3.5 LITER W/O TURBO, 2013-17)
$55.76
2013 Ford Taurus Limited FWD (301A Package)

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Webmaster » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:14 pm

It's the labor that makes it big $$$, not the pump.
2000 Ford Taurus SEL (excellent car, sold to a friend)
1992 Mercury Sable GS (good car except for the tranny, sold)
Current: 03 F150 King Ranch SuperCrew
Other Fords owned: 02 F150 SuperCrew 4x4, 11 F150 EcoBoost, 07 Ranger, 01 F150 XLT, 98 F150 XLT, 96 Thunderbird LX, 95 Escort GT, 86 Mustang LX, 82 Mustang

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by GhostRider » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:27 pm

Webmaster wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:14 pm
It's the labor that makes it big $$$, not the pump.
I know
2013 Ford Taurus Limited FWD (301A Package)

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Webmaster » Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:44 pm

If I sound negative, it's because I am regarding this issue :shock:
2000 Ford Taurus SEL (excellent car, sold to a friend)
1992 Mercury Sable GS (good car except for the tranny, sold)
Current: 03 F150 King Ranch SuperCrew
Other Fords owned: 02 F150 SuperCrew 4x4, 11 F150 EcoBoost, 07 Ranger, 01 F150 XLT, 98 F150 XLT, 96 Thunderbird LX, 95 Escort GT, 86 Mustang LX, 82 Mustang

Dougboffl
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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Dougboffl » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:55 am

Oh this could be a huge problem for FORD's reputation if it is indeed as large a plague as it seems. That basic chain driven cam engine using the water pump as a load bearing device is used in a bunch of designs. When folks start hearing that the WP wears out about 90k miles and potentially wrecks the engine, look out. Who in the secondary market would by a car with 70k+ miles if it is subject to a $1k to $8k repair - that last value is more than the depreciated car is worth in many cases.

Last year I was looking at used Police Interceptors out of curiosity. Most hit the secondary market (eBay) with ~90k miles. I didn't know at the time but makes sense now. Those fleet managers know to off load those vehicles just before the significant risk of engine failure occurs.

There is someone on TaurusClub.com that bought a PI and has just completed his own engine swap resulting from this issue. He has about $2k cash in the project and 72 man hours (on his 2013).

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by DomDoobie » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:30 am

I just traded my 2012 SEL for a 2017 SEl. The one thing I didn't do was touch the anti freeze. I traded it with 156K on it. I did change the oil every 4000 miles with Valvoline synpower full synthetic oil. It seems to me that the failures happened more on the ones that were flushed. Also I'm not an idiot. I've been fixing cars since I was 10 and a tank mechanic in the Marines. For this issue I felt less was more. I do remember my 2006 Montego water pump going at 119K but guess what. It happened not long after I let the dealer change the anti freeze. That pump was easy though. It took like 15 minutes to change it right on the side of the road when I noticed a little dripping from the weep hole. It was right on the top driven by the cam. I think it was a 3.0 litre in that car. So did I get lucky ? Was it changing the oil often that made it last or not touching the anti freeze ? I guess no one will ever know but I do know one thing. Changing the oil often with full synthetic oil definitely helps the engine last longer. That's a fact. Oil reduces friction that reduces heat. Trick question on the NYC bus driver test years ago. What keeps your engine cool? The correct answer was oil and not anti freeze. The friction thing makes sense. So anyhow I'm hoping I have as good a luck as I did with the 2012 on the 2017. I really did like my 2012 better and It seemed like it would have gone another 150k !

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by DomDoobie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:03 pm

Here's something interesting and strange. Picked up my 2017 Taurus last night and I had to do something I never had to do before. (Not a lease) I had to sign 6 papers (duplicates) stating I will change the oil every 5k. So do you think Ford may know something about this issue ? Might go with my theory that mine didn't go because I changed the oil every 4K with full synthetic ?

mmsstar
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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by mmsstar » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:51 pm

Got a copy of that form?

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by DomDoobie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:37 pm

I'll look tomorrow. Must have one in the paperwork. I'll take a picture of it and post it here.

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Enigma-2 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:58 pm

Dougboffl wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:59 am
So I went to the Ford extended warranty site (no longer Ford-ESP now http://fordprotect.ford.com/)
I looks like the "PowertrainCARE" program would be lowest cost (cough) that covers the cursed water pump.
When I read this posting, I decided to join the forum to reply. (Hello).

You stumbled across a really good FAKE Ford warranty website. This is NOT the Ford warranty. It's a cleaver fake one, designed to look as if it's the Ford extended warranty website. (I have a 2009 Lincoln MKX and was looking to purchase another warranty for "Big Mo" (don't ask). These pricks sent me a letter in the mail and I called. Dropped my cookies when they told me the price. So here's what I did.

First, the Ford ESP Extended Warranty is still offered.

I went on line and Googled Ford extended warranty. Selected three Ford dealers who sell the warranty online, and printed out their price quotes. Then I made an appointment with the local Ford dealer's comptroller.

Went in and day discussed the various warranties available, decided on powertrain only for three years. He gave me his price, I gave him the online dealers price printouts, he picked the lowest and matched. And then he bettered it. Offered me $0 deductible if I bring the car to them for warranty service. ($100 at any other dealer).

I gave him the letter that the fake Ford warranty company sent, and he was floored. They are using Ford (and Lincoln) trademark logos, and representing themselves as FoMoCo. Said he was going to contact Ford Corp.

Anyway, the genuine Ford ESP Warranties ARE available, just didn't want to see anyone get mislead by the crooks.
(back to lurk mode)

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Bull Ryder » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:18 am

Dougboffl wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:03 pm
Does anyone know if Ford has addressed the issue (somehow) with recent 3.5L vehicles? Of course I'm specifically concerned with my 2016 model year but just wondering if Ford even thinks there is a significant issue. Is there a year where they fixed them going forward, or is there a better part or seal or procedure to remedy the issue at less cost?
I'm trying to find out the same thing about my 2015 SEL. So far, I've sent two paper letters to Ford Customer Relations wanting to know if there is a certain year that the issue was addressed. It's been six weeks since my second letter and several months since my first letter and I'm hearing only crickets chirping. It would appear that responding to a letter will admit that Ford knows about the problem. They are being total sleaze balls about this. I'm true blue but they are making that much harder right now. I went to my dealer to attempt some info there. They don't know anything either....first time they have received that complaint they told me....BS. Their solution to me; lease a Taurus every two years so I don't have to worry about it. Gee thanks.
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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Bull Ryder » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:22 am

DomDoobie wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:03 pm
Here's something interesting and strange. Picked up my 2017 Taurus last night and I had to do something I never had to do before. (Not a lease) I had to sign 6 papers (duplicates) stating I will change the oil every 5k. So do you think Ford may know something about this issue ? Might go with my theory that mine didn't go because I changed the oil every 4K with full synthetic ?
Probably a way to deny a claim when the engine craps out from a faulty pump. One oil change was 5,150 miles....that's what destroyed your engine....too bad for you. Ford designs a faulty engine and they expect the customer to take the loss. SLEAZEY!
The current fleet;
2015 Taurus SEL Ruby Red
2011 Taurus SE Kona Blue
2014 Econoline 250 Oxford White
2005 Econoline 150 Oxford White
2006 Mustang GT Coupe Screaming Yellow
1999 Mustang GT Vert Chrome Yellow

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Webmaster » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:21 pm

Don't buy another Ford affected by this is the best way to prevent the failure ;-) Yes, I'm serious.
2000 Ford Taurus SEL (excellent car, sold to a friend)
1992 Mercury Sable GS (good car except for the tranny, sold)
Current: 03 F150 King Ranch SuperCrew
Other Fords owned: 02 F150 SuperCrew 4x4, 11 F150 EcoBoost, 07 Ranger, 01 F150 XLT, 98 F150 XLT, 96 Thunderbird LX, 95 Escort GT, 86 Mustang LX, 82 Mustang

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Enigma-2 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:53 pm

Not all that many water pumps have failed, but if your one if those that has had a failure, it doesn't matter it your in the 1%.

The problem seems to be either not flushing and changing out the orange coolant, or maintaining coolant flushes on a severe schedule. My dealer hit me up years ago, said I had the orange coplant and this was now known to be a problem with water pump failures and heater core clogging. They wanted to use a TSB to flush, neutralize and change to green. I changed and the service manager recommended to change at 30k intervals.

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Re: HOW TO PREVENT WATER PUMP FAILURE

Post by Webmaster » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:19 am

Enigma-2 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:53 pm
...My dealer hit me up years ago, said I had the orange coplant and this was now known to be a problem with water pump failures and heater core clogging. They wanted to use a TSB to flush, neutralize and change to green. I changed and the service manager recommended to change at 30k intervals.
Do you happen to have the receipt or TSB # so I can check that? That's interesting.
2000 Ford Taurus SEL (excellent car, sold to a friend)
1992 Mercury Sable GS (good car except for the tranny, sold)
Current: 03 F150 King Ranch SuperCrew
Other Fords owned: 02 F150 SuperCrew 4x4, 11 F150 EcoBoost, 07 Ranger, 01 F150 XLT, 98 F150 XLT, 96 Thunderbird LX, 95 Escort GT, 86 Mustang LX, 82 Mustang

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